Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

[Dr.Dudd]

Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson
Saturday, 23 May 2009
National Security Minister Senator Dwight Nelson has declared that persons with illegal guns threaten the country and should be removed from society.

The Minister, who made the comment at a special Media Forum on Crime, Violence and Security, said gunmen who threaten the lives of law abiding Jamaicans have forfeited their right to live among law abiding citizens.

"I believe, and I'm a convict to the position that if a person has an illegal gun with the intent of killing, with the intent of threatening the lives and property of decent law abiding citizens, then that person has forfeited his or her right to live among decent citizens," said Mr. Nelson.

Encouraging police to take lethal action - JFJ

This statement has raised red flags for human rights group, Jamaicans for Justice (JFJ).

According to David Wong-Ken, former JFJ Executive Director, Senator Nelson's statement sends the wrong message to the members of the police force.

"This statement is unfortunate because it seems to be encouraging policemen and women to take the matter of justice into their own hands. The police are not entitled to use lethal force unless their own lives and the lives of fellow citizens are in danger.

"If the danger has past, no matter whether there's a determination of an illegal weapon or not, once they perceive that the danger has past, they're not entitled to use lethal force," said Mr. Wong-Ken.

Business group backs plans for reserve unit

In the meantime, a plan by the National Security Minister to establish a police-civilian reserve unit has found favour with Winston Lawson, Head of the Manchester Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Mr. Lawson says the reserve unit will help deal effectively with the levels of crime in Jamaica.

"There is so much for the police to do when some of that can be done by civilians while the expertise of the police could be used in other areas," he said.

On May 10, Senator Nelson announced plan to set up a police-civilian reserve unit similar to the army reserves of the Jamaica Defence Force.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

They always use a darkie to be the face of their terrorism against blacks. They couldn't get the former minister to do it, so they switch him for this puppet. just because a person in Jamaica has a gun illegally does not mean he intend to murder. It may simply mean he is not willing to sit by and die, because the government create laws that prohibit him to do all he can to secure his life and property.
Who will decide which is which?
Or is it that the black man with a gun should be eliminated in the country? take care a few of you dark skinned government types get caught in the mix. That is the problem when they allow blacks to legally achieve certain levels, awhile at the same time suppressing the rest. There will always be that big mistake, of shooting one of those , mistakenly thought he was only of these.

[uswe]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

So what you saying Good Doc, Dwight Nelson said what he said because he's a dark skinned black man?
If you think its a bone headed statement why not say so, what has his level of melanin got to do with it?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what you saying Good Doc, Dwight Nelson said what he said because he's a dark skinned black man?
If you think its a bone headed statement why not say so, what has his level of melanin got to do with it? </div></div>

No USWE, it is not becaue he is balck why he is sayingso. It is because he is balck why he is used to promote such want on disregard for the value of the lives of balcks. It is all about appearance. If they had use any on the colour person, it would look like what it is.
The minority elite race using some balck faced puppet, to carry out their dirty work.
That way he will and his race take the brunt of the eventual fallout from the action they directed from their perch.

If you knew our history you would realize what will come next.
the last time a politician said that it was open season on black men by the police.
That is what brought on the the continued animosity betweenthe people and thepolice. <span style="font-style: italic"> The statement was ... if yoiuy see them with a gun, shoot first and ask question safter..</span>
Well more than a few was mistakely killed.


<span style="font-size: 11pt">It's all about sociology uswe, not common sense. common sense, acannot be used to analyse every subject. the appropriate discipline has to be used. </span>

[uswe]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what you saying Good Doc, Dwight Nelson said what he said because he's a dark skinned black man?
If you think its a bone headed statement why not say so, what has his level of melanin got to do with it? </div></div>

No USWE, it is not becaue he is balck why he is sayingso. It is because he is balck why he is used to promote such want on disregard for the value of the lives of balcks. It is all about appearance. If they had use any on the colour person, it would look like what it is.
The minority elite race using some balck faced puppet, to carry out their dirty work.
That way he will and his race take the brunt of the eventual fallout from the action they directed from their perch.

If you knew our history you would realize what will come next.
the last time a politician said that it was open season on black men by the police.
That is what brought on the the continued animosity betweenthe people and thepolice. <span style="font-style: italic"> The statement was ... if yoiuy see them with a gun, shoot first and ask question safter..</span>
Well more than a few was mistakely killed.


<span style="font-size: 11pt">It's all about sociology uswe, not common sense. common sense, acannot be used to analyse every subject. the appropriate discipline has to be used. </span> </div></div>

So your'e saying he never said it because he's black, but was instructed by the &quot;minority elite race&quot; to say what he said because he happens to be black?
I'm fully aware of <span style="font-weight: bold">OUR</span> history Good Doc and what HLS said. So you take from what Dwight Nelson said that he is not only implying, but acvocating
that the police have free will to murder black people?

Good Doc, I take it you have a PhD, Permanent head Damage

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

Don't we all have some impairment??
better than BA...brain absent.

[uswe]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

Not to mention your MA, Mad Always

[Amberal37]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They always use a darkie to be the face of their terrorism against blacks. They couldn't get the former minister to do it, so they switch him for this puppet. <span style="font-weight: bold">just because a person in Jamaica has a gun illegally does not mean he intend to murder</span>. It may simply mean he is not willing to sit by and die, because the government create laws that prohibit him to do all he can to secure his life and property.
Who will decide which is which?
Or is it that the black man with a gun should be eliminated in the country? take care a few of you dark skinned government types get caught in the mix. That is the problem when they allow blacks to legally achieve certain levels, awhile at the same time suppressing the rest. There will always be that big mistake, of shooting one of those , mistakenly thought he was only of these. </div></div>

Doc I also have to wonder about your state of mind with regards to your unchecked advocacy on guns and firearm ownership.
Why would someone go through the great risk of holding something ILLEGALLY if they have no intention of using it...for your information - guns are KILLING weapons.

I also detect some level of inferiority complex, while one should always have their wits about them as individuals, imagine you were to constantly tell your dark-skinned child whenever they receive a promotion, that they were picked because they were given the short straw...one of two things will happen...
But the most likely outcome is that that child will come to understand that they are never worthy of anything that looks good - a crisis that MANY black children already face, the BLACK parents and peers are to blame for this - NOT white society.

[Nylah]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also detect some level of inferiority complex, while one should always have their wits about them as individuals, imagine you were to constantly tell your dark-skinned child whenever they receive a promotion, that they were picked because they were given the short straw...one of two things will happen...
<span style="font-weight: bold">But the most likely outcome is that that child will come to understand that they are never worthy of anything that looks good - a crisis that MANY black children already face, the BLACK parents and peers are to blame for this - NOT white society.</span></div></div>

bears repeating

Could even be a jump off point for a next thread

[Dyoll_73]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because a person in Jamaica has a gun illegally does not mean he intend to murder. It may simply mean he is not willing to sit by and die, because the government create laws that prohibit him to do all he can to secure his life and property. </div></div>

True. And the alternative may be that he intends to murder and that he may not have qualified to carry a firearm. You can't assume that he would otherwise be qualified to carry a gun; it's just that the non-black 'elites' think most &quot;darkies&quot; shouldn't have guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or is it that the black man with a gun should be eliminated in the country? take care a few of you dark skinned government types get caught in the mix. That is the problem when they allow blacks to legally achieve certain levels, awhile at the same time suppressing the rest. There will always be that big mistake, of shooting one of those , mistakenly thought he was only of these. </div></div>

How helpful is your 'analysis' if everything for you is easily reduced to race?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just because a person in Jamaica has a gun illegally does not mean he intend to murder. It may simply mean he is not willing to sit by and die, because the government create laws that prohibit him to do all he can to secure his life and property. </div></div>

True. And the alternative may be that he intends to murder and that he may not have qualified to carry a firearm. You can't assume that he would otherwise be qualified to carry a gun; it's just that the non-black 'elites' think most &quot;darkies&quot; shouldn't have guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or is it that the black man with a gun should be eliminated in the country? take care a few of you dark skinned government types get caught in the mix. That is the problem when they allow blacks to legally achieve certain levels, awhile at the same time suppressing the rest. There will always be that big mistake, of shooting one of those , mistakenly thought he was only of these. </div></div>

How helpful is your 'analysis' if everything for you is easily reduced to race? </div></div> <span style="font-size: 11pt"> Not very helpful for those who are afraid to face facts.
But rather essential if it is the basis of the policy that dictates the strategy of running the country.

This reminds me of the strategy of the present republicans in congress.
They are willing to help, but only if it is their way and their way only.
Now you only find analysis if it does not point to racism as the basis of the policy, too often.

That Mean if the statistics point to as finding, it should be discarded,because it is too common inn all the population.

i notice that Mr Seaga for the first time after decades of discouraging the study of history.
On the basis that we need to forget the mast and create the future.
He has admitted that history is indeed important,if one intend not to repeat bad experiences.
well most of you seem to have the old belief too. That history is only good for complaining about being wronged. i have a different philosophy.
I believe that with appropriate analysis using the right tools, all peroblems are easily solved.

it is only difficult when we try to use the same old tried and failed strategis, because we are afraid to really look at it without the goggles.
what is happenning in Jamaica is not difficult to solve. We just hav eto see the real problem for what it is.

I can';t unbderstand any educated person that accept that it is by chance that the majority of Jamaican children did not have the opportunity ot a high school education,until less than 5 years ago.

And i cannot understand how they justify it. <span style="font-weight: bold"> As for the qualification to get a lisenced fire arm,I am very well aquianted with it. It is even on line.</span> It has also been thoroughly discussed here generating multiple page runs.</span>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They always use a darkie to be the face of their terrorism against blacks. They couldn't get the former minister to do it, so they switch him for this puppet. <span style="font-weight: bold">just because a person in Jamaica has a gun illegally does not mean he intend to murder</span>. It may simply mean he is not willing to sit by and die, because the government create laws that prohibit him to do all he can to secure his life and property.
Who will decide which is which?
Or is it that the black man with a gun should be eliminated in the country? take care a few of you dark skinned government types get caught in the mix. That is the problem when they allow blacks to legally achieve certain levels, awhile at the same time suppressing the rest. There will always be that big mistake, of shooting one of those , mistakenly thought he was only of these. </div></div>

Doc I also have to wonder about your state of mind with regards to your unchecked advocacy on guns and firearm ownership.
Why would someone go through the great risk of holding something ILLEGALLY if they have no intention of using it...for your information - guns are KILLING weapons.

I also detect some level of inferiority complex, while one should always have their wits about them as individuals, imagine you were to constantly tell your dark-skinned child whenever they receive a promotion, that they were picked because they were given the short straw...one of two things will happen...
But the most likely outcome is that that child will come to understand that they are never worthy of anything that looks good - a crisis that MANY black children already face, the BLACK parents and peers are to blame for this - NOT white society.

</div></div> Now after your common sense analysis, now why don't you use the appropriate tool to do the job of analysis? If IU had kids that needed the reassurance of another as to why they are promoted, certainly it most likely could have been a matter of race. you see I never taught my children that their race was equal, better nor inferior.
What I did was to spend every opportunity to teach them to be the best at what they did, in school and out of school. I got them to the point where it was natural to expect that. I also taught them that it is by your ability that you will overcome every other biases. i taught them how to deal with all manner of taunting, not just racial. I taught them how to be a human being, Not a member of a race.They learn it well. and one more thing I taught them That the true definition of EDUCATION is <span style="font-weight: bold">changed behavior</span>. Yes and if i must say so myself, they are educated. hey are ahead of their peers. the strange thing is that they tend to believe that i spoke to some one to arrange their advancements. i am working at convincing them that they are doing on their own merits. I can see some infdior complex in that. but I will accep that as fair barter.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I also detect some level of inferiority complex, while one should always have their wits about them as individuals, imagine you were to constantly tell your dark-skinned child whenever they receive a promotion, that they were picked because they were given the short straw...one of two things will happen...
<span style="font-weight: bold">But the most likely outcome is that that child will come to understand that they are never worthy of anything that looks good - a crisis that MANY black children already face, the BLACK parents and peers are to blame for this - NOT white society.</span></div></div>

bears repeating

Could even be a jump off point for a next thread </div></div> <span style="font-size: 11pt">Only if those black parents and their parents parents, were not the products of a white society, strategy to repress them.

until the vast majority of black children and their parents are taught the real reason why they are in the position they are, the majority will always be in that position.

They are taught that it is their parents fault. That lead them to believe that their parents are somewhat deficient,for not being able to do like the successful people in the society.
it further leads them to believe that they inherited it too. especially when the society take every opportunity to convince that it is so.. If they discover the truth , they become a new person.</span>

[Nylah]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson



and your point is??

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gunmen should not be part of society – Nelson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

and your point is?? </div></div> That the black parents should be blamed, because they had equal opportunities to achieve as much as the whites,and failed to do so.
Maybe they re inferiuor afterall.